Archbishop Gądecki (after Pope’s private meeting with Polish Bishops): “Post #AmorisLaetitia, for us who want to keep the truth of the Gospel, no communion for the divorced + civilly remarried if prior marriage valid, which is an expression of full communion with Christ”

Abp Gądecki
Abp Gądecki

Polish/Google Translate English (THE WAR welcomes a better translation)

Abp Gądecki: papież Franciszek rozmawiał z nami jak ojciec z dziećmi | Konferencja Episkopatu Polski

Abp Gądecki: papież Franciszek rozmawiał z nami jak ojciec z dziećmi Archbishop Gądecki: Pope Francis spoke with us like a father with children
Papież Franciszek rozmawiał z nami jak ojciec z dziećmi – powiedział abp Stanisław Gądecki relacjonując spotkanie papieża Franciszka z polskimi biskupami. Przewodniczący KEP powiedział, że Ojciec Święty nie przygotował żadnego tekstu, ale odpowiadał na pytania biskupów. Pope Francis spoke with us like a father with children – said Archbishop Stanislaw Gądecki reporting on the meeting of Pope Francis with the Polish bishops. Chairman KEP said that the Holy Father did not prepare any text, but answered questions from bishops.
„Papież nie chce prowadzić dyskusji w ogniu mediów. Dzięki temu każdy może spokojnie wypowiedzieć swoje zdanie. Ta formuła nie jest niczym nadzwyczajnym” – podkreślił przewodniczące KEP. “The Pope does not want to lead a discussion in the heat of the media. So everyone can peacefully express their views. This formula is nothing extraordinary, “- he stressed presiding KEP.
Podczas spotkania Ojciec Święty rozpoczął od czynów miłosierdzia. Pierwszy z nich to „zmarłych pogrzebać”. „Papież wspomniał o odejściu abp. Zygmunta Zimowskiego. Wspólnie pomodliliśmy się za jego duszę” – mówił abp Gądecki. Następnie, nawiązując do kolejnych czynów miłosierdzia Ojciec Święty wspominał o kard. Franciszku Macharskim, który znajduje się w śpiączce. During the meeting, the Holy Father began by acts of charity. The first is “to bury the dead.” “The Pope spoke about the departure of Archbishop. Zygmunt Zimowski. Together they prayed for his soul “- said Archbishop Gądecki. Then, referring to the successive acts of charity, the Holy Father spoke of Cardinal. Francis Macharski, who is in a coma.
Biskupi pytali papieża o to jaką odpowiedź na sekularyzację powinna dać Polska. Następne pytanie dotyczyły miłosierdzia i ruchów charyzmatycznych w Kościele. Ostanie dotyczyło uchodźców. „Ojciec Święty odpowiadał trochę jak do dzieci, w bardzo ciepły sposób. Odnosząc się do każdego z tych zagadnień w sposób długi i wyczerpujący, ale nie na poziomie intelektualnego dyskursu, ale tak jak ojciec rozmawia ze swoimi dziećmi. To moim zdaniem rys pontyfikatu papieża Franciszka” – podkreślił abp Gądecki. The bishops asked the pope for what is the answer to secularization should give Poland. The next question concerned the mercy and charismatic movements in the Church. The last concerned the refugees. “The Holy Father answered a little like children in a very warm way. Referring to each of these issues in a long and grueling, but not at the level of intellectual discourse, but as a father talking to their children. This in my opinion figure of Pope Francis “- emphasized Archbishop Gądecki.
Pytany przez dziennikarzy o kwestię uchodźców przewodniczący KEP poinformował, że Kościół w Polsce podejmuje działania pomocowe w tym zakresie. – Mogą wydawać się one małe, ale są bardzo konkretne – zauważy. Pierwsza z nich to pomoc rodzin rodzinom. Chodzi o nawiązanie prawdziwych relacji międzyludzkich. Pomoc ta odbywa się za pośrednictwem Caritas. Drugą formą pomocy są znane we Włoszech korytarze humanitarne. Chodzi tutaj o pomoc tym, którzy ponieśli najdotkliwsze straty. When asked by journalists about the issue of refugees chairman of the CEP announced that the Church in Poland take action assistance in this regard. – They may seem to be small but they are very specific – notice. The first is to help families families. It’s about establishing real relationships. This assistance is carried out through Caritas. The second form of assistance are known in Italy humanitarian corridors. It is here to help those who have suffered the most severe losses.
„Propozycje te z trudnościami przebijały się przez włoski parlament i zapewne z trudnościami będzie przebijać się przez parlament polski. Musimy jednak myśleć z perspektywy tych poszkodowanych ludzi a nie z własnej” – podkreślił abp Gądecki. “These proposals difficulties pierced by the Italian parliament, and probably with difficulties will break through the Polish parliament. But we have to think from the perspective of affected people and not their own “- emphasized Archbishop Gądecki.
Przewodniczący KEP pytany był także o kwestię przystępowania do Komunii świętej przez osoby rozwiedzione, o której to kwestii papież wspomina w adhortacji „Amoris laetitia”. Abp Gądecki powiedział, że Ojciec Święty wychodzi z założenia, że prawa generalne są trudne do egzekwowania w każdym kraju, dlatego rzuca myśl o decentralizacji, by poszczególne episkopaty mogły z własnej perspektywy podejmować się aplikacji tych papieskich wskazań, ale też, by patrząc na swoją sytuację religijną i kulturową mogły odnosić się do zagadnień, które dotyczą szczegółowych spraw. Chairman of KEP was also asked about the issue of adherence to Holy Communion by divorced people, which is the issue of the pope mentions in the Exhortation “Amoris laetitia”. Archbishop Gądecki said that the Holy Father proceeds from the assumption that the laws of general are difficult to enforce in any country, and therefore throws the idea of decentralization, that individual episcopates could have their own perspective to make the application of the papal indications, but also by looking at their situation religious and cultural might relate to issues that relate to specific issues.
Hierarcha zauważył, że to, co zostało zawarte w posynodalnej adhortacji, a odnosi się do tej sprawy, jest dużym krokiem naprzód, bo uwzględniono, jak powiedział, „nasze głosy”, które chciały zachować prawdę Ewangelii, to znaczy fakt, że nie można przekroczyć w sposób świadomy i dobrowolny nakazu Chrystusa, który dotyczy rozwodu. The prelate noted that what was contained in the Post-Synodal Exhortation, and refers to this case, is a big step forward, because it takes into account, he said, “our voices”, who wanted to keep the truth of the Gospel, that is, that can not be exceeded in a conscious and voluntary Christ’s command, which concerns a divorce.
Abp Gądecki dodał, że dokładne rozeznanie sytuacji konkretnego człowieka wymaga czasem lat, a problemów nie da się rozwiązać „w dwie minuty w konfesjonale”. To droga, którą trzeba przejść z kapłanem, wnikliwie i świadomie, wiedząc o tym, że jeśli małżeństwo zostało zawarte ważnie, to nie ma tytułu, żeby umożliwić przystępowanie do komunii, która jest wyrazem pełnej jedności z Chrystusem. Archbishop Gądecki added that accurate understanding of the situation of a specific human needs sometimes years, and the problems can not be solved “in two minutes in the confessional.” This way, you have to go with the priest, carefully and deliberately, knowing that if the marriage was valid, it does not have title to allow for the accession of communion, which is an expression of full communion with Christ.

Chairman of KEP was also asked about the issue of adherence to Holy Communion by divorced people, which is the issue of the pope mentions in the Exhortation “Amoris laetitia”. Archbishop Gądecki said that the Holy Father proceeds from the assumption that the laws of general are difficult to enforce in any country, and therefore throws the idea of decentralization, that individual episcopates could have their own perspective to make the application of the papal indications, but also by looking at their situation religious and cultural might relate to issues that relate to specific issues.


Cf. Francis > Speeches > 2016 > July > Wednesday, 27 July 2016 > Apostolic Journey to Poland: Meeting with the Polish Bishops in the Cathedral Cathedral of Kraków.

One unanswered question RE: #AmorisLaetitia and its advocates: After confession, do those with “attenuating circumstances” return to their divorced + civilly remarried life?

Rocco Buttiglione
Rocco Buttiglione

Some comments on the Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia – The joy of love and the consternation of theologians


The joy of love and the consternation of theologians · Some comments on the Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia · July 19, 2016


by Rocco Buttiglione

The Endowed Chair of John Paul II in Philosophy and the History of European Institutions

2016-07-19 L’Osservatore Romano

[…]

Yet we must read the text more deeply. Once upon a time, divorced and remarried persons were excommunicated and excluded from the life of the Church. That kind of excommunication disappears from the new Code of Canon Law and Familiaris Consortio, and divorced and remarried persons are now encouraged to participate in the life of the Church and to give their children a Christian upbringing. This was an extraordinarily courageous decision that broke from an age-old tradition. But Familiaris Consortio tells us that the divorced and remarried cannot receive the sacraments. The reason is that they are living in a state of manifest public sin and they must avoid giving scandal. These reasons are so strong that any attenuating circumstances were rendered inconsequential.

Now Pope Francis tells us that it is worth considering such circumstances. The difference between Familiaris Consortio and Amoris Laetitia lies completely in this. There is no doubt that a divorced and remarried person is objectively in a situation of grave sin; Pope Francis does not simply advocate that such a person be admitted to Communion, but, like all sinners, to confession. There, he or she will relate all the eventual attenuating circumstances and will hear from the confessor whether and under what conditions he or she can receive absolution.

[…]

(My emphasis)

The one unanswered question:

After confession, do those with “attenuating circumstances” return to their divorced + civilly remarried life? If yes, under the conditions of Familiaris Consortio (November 22, 1981) | Pope John Paul II or under new different conditions?


Cf. Vatican Ramps Up Family Document Defense by Nicole Winfield (AP) | U.S. News – The Vatican is striking back at conservative critics of Pope Francis’ landmark document on family life.

Buttiglione’s argument, featured on the front page, marked a shift in the Vatican’s defense of Francis’ document, confronting the criticisms head-on rather than just praising the pope’s text.

The initiative could signal a more concerted campaign by the Vatican to ensure that the “The Joy of Love” is interpreted as Francis intended. Already, conservative Philadelphia Archbishop Charles Chaput has said that divorced and civilly remarried Catholics can only receive Communion in his archdiocese if they abstain from sex and live as “brother and sister.”

(My emphasis)


Buttiglione’s argument matches a previous statement by Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, making the case that Pope Francis intended his apostolic exhortation to be interpreted as allowing for Communion for divorce-and-remarried couples on a case-by-case basis. The prominence given to Buttiglione’s essay in the Vatican’s official newspaper suggests a concerted effort to promote that interpretation of the papal document. – Buttiglione backs Amoris Laetitia in L’Osservatore Romano article: News Headlines | Catholic Culture, July 20, 2016

(My emphasis)


Rebuttals to Rocco Buttiglione and his article

Amoris Laetitia and the new church of Francis by Veronica A. Arntz Rejecting False Teachings on Marriage: An Analysis of Rocco Buttiglione’s Article

On Rocco Buttiglione’s Defense of Amoris Laetitia by Prof. Richard A. Spinello, August 9, 2016

When confessors evaluate such responsibility or blameworthiness they are usually looking at things retrospectively. Was the act in question done knowingly and voluntarily? If a person did not know or understand the pertinent moral rule, or she was forced into violating it, we can assume that her responsibility is limited or even nullified. A confessor might then determine that while the act was objectively sinful, the person is not subjectively culpable. However, as moral theologians like E. Christian Brugger have pointed out, the novelty of Amoris Laetitia is that it applies these conditions prospectively in order to determine the ability of someone to participate in the sacramental life of the Church. It highlights whether or not a person in an objectively sinful state is capable of overcoming his ignorance or extricating himself from that situation. If not, that person’s subjective culpability continues to be mitigated.

Amoris Laetitia and John Paul II by John Kush, August 11, 2016 | 1P5



Published on Sep 16, 2016
FR GERALD MURRAY and ROBERT ROYAL…the Papal Posse…discuss the implications of Pope Francis’s recent letter to some Argentinean bishops regarding “exceptional cases” in which divorced and remarried might receive Holy Communion.

Fr. Murray: ‘If you are living in an adulterous second marriage, and you approach Holy Communion at Mass, this is a contradiction of what God expects of you. Mitigating circumstances do not give you a get out of jail card, mitigating circumstances is about culpability for sin. Those apply in retrospect, you look back when you are making your examination for confession, what did I do, was anything involved. If you are planning on committing adultery tomorrow and the day after, you can’t claim mitigating circumstances, you have to say the call to conversion applies to me just like it does to everyone else.’ – Cf. October 3, 2016 PEWSITTER.COM: EWTN’s The World Over panel expresses Grave concerns over Amoris Laetitia And the Pope’s recent letter to the Argentinian Bishops by Andrew Parrish

(My emphasis)


Conclusion

Even in the unlikely event of a person invincibly ignorant stumbling into the irregular situation of divorced + civilly remarried without a decree of nullity on either party’s prior marriage and they went to confession, from the priest, they must hear what St. John the Baptist said to King Herod together with what Our LORD said to the Samaritan woman by the well, “she/he whom you now have is not your wife/husband and it is not lawful for you to have another’s wife/husband” [Cf. John 4:18 (RSVCE) and Mk 6:18 (RSVCE)].

FSSP German-speaking District Superior Pater Bernhard Gerstle: #AmorisLaetitia a novelty on divorved + civilly remarried

FSSP German-speaking District Superior Pater Bernhard Gerstle
Pater Gerstle

Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter Publishes a Critique of Amoris Laetitia by Maike Hickson | The Wanderer

[…]

Father Gerstle continues:

The Church has up to now always had a clear attitude [Haltung] in this question [of the “remarried” divorcees], even if there has developed, already for quite a while now, a practice of receiving Holy Communion that is in opposition to the objective norms of the Church.”

Thus, says Gerstle, this current discussion is finally about receiving a “retrospective blessing” for a practice of disobedience about something that has heretofore been gravely forbidden by the Church. With regard to Amoris Laetitia, the German priest says: “In Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis now gives permission to the individual priests and pastors to examine each individual case with regard to the possibility of receiving the Sacraments (Penance and Holy Communion).” Thus, Pope Francis does not anymore, “in a general way, exclude those couples who live in an irregular situation (to include cohabiting couples) from the reception of the Sacraments.” Gerstle stresses that Pope Francis does not anymore demand from these couples the binding requirement to live in continence. He adds: “This is indeed a novelty and is thus being celebrated by the representatives of the liberal direction as being revolutionary and as constituting a landmark decision.” However, in Gerstle’s eyes, those who “feel bound to the valid teaching of the Church, and who fear the watering down of the indissolubility of marriage,” see a “justified reason for the great concern that now there will follow a complete breech of the levée.”

With this new approach, Gerstle says, “the Church’s teaching – according to which the validity of the Sacrament of Confession is dependent upon a penitent’s true contrition and his firm purpose to avoid the near occasion of sin if possible – would be taken off the hinges.” [emphasis added] This would mean “a serious breech with the elementary principles of the Church’s moral teaching, as it had last been confirmed to be the irreformable teaching of the Church by St. John Paul II himself in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor, as well as in his apostolic exhortation Familiaris Consortio.

[…]

Bishop Egan: About the care of the divorced and remarried, Pope Francis in #AmorisLaetitia does not change Church discipline. Pastors to guide and accompany.

Bishop Egan
Bishop Egan

Pastoral Letter – 10th July 2016 Getting Married

PASTORAL LETTER FROM THE BISHOP […] read in all churches and chapels of the Diocese of Portsmouth on 10th July 2016, the Fifteenth Sunday of the Year.

GETTING MARRIED

Dear Families and Friends,

[…]

When Amoris Laetitia was published, there was a controversy about the care of the divorced and remarried. In fact, Pope Francis reaffirms Jesus’ teaching on chastity, marriage, sexuality and family life; he does not change Church discipline. But he does speak in a new compassionate way about those who have drifted from the practice of faith because they have found themselves in marital situations and patterns of behaviour at variance with the Gospel. He urges us to adopt a new attitude, not to be shrill or hard-line judgmental, but always to reach out with God’s mercy, to shew compassion, to include not exclude, to foster growth and discernment. In this, pastors have an important role of guidance and accompaniment. And let us not forget the sensitive work of our diocesan marriage tribunal, a real agency of Divine mercy. Indeed, please pray for all who generously assist its endeavours.

[….]


Pastoral Letter – 10th July 2016 Getting Married PDF


Cf. Pastoral Message: Amoris Laetitia, 24th April, The Fifth Sunday of Easter

With #AmorisLaetitia, Pope Francis Expands Kasper’s Proposal

With #AmorisLaetitia, Pope Francis Expands Kasper’s his Proposal

With #AmorisLaetitia, Pope Francis Allows not only the Divorced + Civilly Remarried to Access the Sacraments but also all People in “Irregular” Situations

My argument is in two parts. The first will be questions to ponder upon and the second will be to show that not only was Kasper’s proposal of admitting certain divorced + civilly remarried to communion in Amoris Laetitia, the pope has gone even further and expanded this to certain people in “irregular’ situations” of which the divorced + civilly remarried are of course a subset.

I. Questions to Ponder

1) The pope does not offer us case studies or recipes. Does he have examples of such case studies or recipes?

2) If yes, why did he not offer them for clarity?

3) If no, then on what basis did the pope affirm, in a humble and simple manner, in a note that the help of the sacraments may also be given in ‘certain cases’?

4) With the lack of the required clarity, how are the priests to ensure that the confessional is not be a torture chamber but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy and the Eucharist ‘is not a prize for the perfect but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak?

One conclusion that one must therefore draw is that the lack of clarity and therefore the ensuing confusion is a purposeful strategy.[a]

II. Has the pope opened up access to the sacraments for people who live in ‘irregular’ situations?
First, the Kasper’s Proposal:

A divorced and remarried person:
1. If he repents of his failure in the first marriage,
2. If he has clarified the obligations of the first marriage, if it is definitively ruled out that he could turn back,
3. If he cannot abandon without further harm the responsibilities taken on with the new civil marriage,
4. If however he is doing the best he can to live out the possibilities of the second marriage on the basis of the faith and to raise his children in the faith,
5. If he has a desire for the sacraments as a source of strength in his situation, should we or can we deny him, after a period of time in a new direction, of “metanoia,” the sacrament of penance and then of communion?

This possible way would not be a general solution. It is not the wide road of the masses, but rather the narrow path of what is probably the smaller segment of the divorced and remarried, those sincerely interested in the sacraments. Should not the worst be avoided precisely here? In fact, when the children of the divorced and remarried do not see their parents approach the sacraments they too usually fail to find their way to confession and communion. Should we not take into account the fact that we will also lose the next generation and perhaps the one after it too? Our long-established practice, is it not showing itself to be counterproductive? [. . .] – Source: Kasper Changes the Paradigm, Bergoglio Applauds

Proceeding to answer:

Since the pope affirms, in a humble and simple manner [what does this even mean and what is its purpose here?], in a note[b] that the help of the sacraments may also be given to those ‘irregular’ situations in ‘certain cases’ and since divorced + civilly remarried are a subset of those in ‘irregular’ situations, then the pope affirms, in a humble and simple manner, in a note that the help of the sacraments may also be given to the divorced + civilly remarried in ‘certain cases’[c]

What might the ‘certain cases’ be?

The pope has never repudiated Kasper’s proposal and it was at his invitation that Cardinal Kasper presented this proposal [which it is now clear was his all along] at the consistory in Feb 2014, therefore the conditions for the ‘certain cases’ to be admitted to the sacraments appear to be 1. thru 5. in Kasper’s Proposal.

“We all know many priests”, he said, who admit remarried divorcees to Holy Communion “without discussing or asking, and that’s a fact.” He added that it is “difficult to handle for the bishop,” and said he was “very happy” that the Pope in the document takes up the controversial approach he has adopted in Vienna.

This involves what he called “five attentions” made to remarried divorcees: a series of five questions the priest must ask to see how merciful and correctly they have behaved before, it can be inferred, they are able to receive Holy Communion. They include how they treat the children of their first marriages, how they treated their abandoned spouse, and how they dealt with unresolved hatred.
With this approach, the sacraments “come into another light,” he said. “It’s about the way of conversion.” –  | VIDEO — Schönborn: ‘Amoris Laetitia’ Needs Serious Theological Discussion, BY EDWARD PENTIN 04/12/2016 | NCR

Has the pope opened up the access to the sacraments beyond the divorced + civilly remarried?

Yes he has, because the pope affirms, in a humble and simple manner, in a note that the help of the sacraments may also be given to people who live in ‘irregular’ situations [of which the divorced + civilly remarried are a subset] in ‘certain cases’, 

As Card. Pell said after the first Synod in 2014, it was never about the divorced + civilly remarried:

Antonio Socci also reaches the same conclusion:

Naturally – in all of this – Communion to the divorced and remarried is only a pretext, it is a question that interests no-one, not even the divorced: the “revolutionaries” have simply used “irregular couples” as an impetus to demolish the foundations of two thousand years of Catholicism.
And now there is a panorama of ruins set before the eyes of priests who are still Catholic, since – like skittles toppling – after the indissolubility of marriage, everything will come toppling down: confession, the commandments, the natural law. Most of all, the constant teaching of the Church emerges destroyed. – RORATE CÆLI: Antonio Socci: There has been a coup in the Church

[Update FRIDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2016] Whose Side Are We on? by David Carlin | The Catholic Thing

And not just sexual morality. The whole structure of Catholicism will collapse. For if Jesus, who (we should remember) was no minor authority figure in the history of the Church, was wrong about marriage, who knows how many other things he was wrong about? And if Jesus was wrong, it is likely St. Paul and other New Testament writers were wrong. And if Jesus and Paul were wrong, who can be confident in the teachings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church? One small leak in the dike.

Conclusion

From now on, it should be expected that not only will the divorced + civilly remarried present themselves to the priests in order to access the sacraments, but also people in ALL ‘irregular’ situations.

[UPDATE Sun August 5, 2018]

Amoris

ArthurMcGowan reply João Pedro and CR reply to ArthurMcGowan


Footnotes:

a. I understand those who prefer a more rigorous pastoral care which leaves no room for confusion. But I sincerely believe that Jesus wants a Church attentive to the goodness which the Holy Spirit sows in the midst of human weakness, a Mother who, while clearly expressing her objective teaching, “always does what good she can, even if in the process, her shoes get soiled by the mud of the street”. [AL, 308]

b. In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium [24 November 2013], 44: AAS 105 [2013], 1038). I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak” (ibid., 47: 1039). – Cf. Footnote 351 [paragraph 305], AMORIS LAETITIA

c. Cf. Presentation of the post-Synodal apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia: the logic of pastoral mercy, 08.04.2016

(My emphasis)


[UPDATE Fri Feb 17, 2017]

Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio:

[T] he divorced and remarried de facto couples, those cohabitating…they’re certainly not models of unions in sync with Catholic doctrine. But the Church cannot look the other way. Therefore, the Sacraments of reconciliation and of Communion must be given, even to those so-called ‘wounded families’ and to however many, who, despite living in situations not in line with traditional matrimonial canons, express the sincere desire to approach the sacraments after an appropriate period of discernment. – ‘It gives the feeling of a schism’: EWTN panel analyzes current ‘disaster’ in the Church | LifeSiteNews

(My emphasis)


The final result will be precisely in accord with Archbishop Bergoglio’s tacit practice for years in Buenos Aires. Make no mistake, the end game is a more or less indifferent permission for any who present for Holy Communion. And so we attain the longed for haven of all-inclusiveness and ‘mercy’: the terminal trivialization of the Eucharist, of sin and repentance, of the sacrament of Matrimony, of any belief in objective and transcendent truth, the evisceration of language, and of any stance of compunction before the living God, the God of Holiness and Truth. If I may adapt here a saying of St Thomas Aquinas: Mercy without truth is the mother of dissolution.
A Year After “Amoris Laetitia”. A Timely Word by Anna M. Silvas, Rome, April 22, 2017


[UPDATE Mon May 14, 2018]

Priest explains how Amoris Laetitia was really written to ‘normalize’ homosexuality | LIFESITE